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7/02/2011 10:51:57 AM
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Daniel M Smith
Posts 25
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I have found a great deal on a Cervelo S2 but it comes with SRAM Rival. I have not ever heard of this before and some reviews say positives and some say negatives. I would like to hear from people who actually use SRAM and let me know what they think. I have always used SHIMANO, but am not afraid to change, just would like to know how they compare.
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8/02/2011 9:57:42 AM
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Alan Tomasic
Posts 1
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Hi Daniel,
I'm in a similar dilemna as I've purchased a Cervelo S3 with SRAM Red, but all my other bikes have Campagnolo gear on them. I hear that SRAM is good, it only takes a short while to get used to the different shifting mechanism. A bigger problem you might face (not an issue if you currently have Shimano gear) is that I'll have to change over all my wheels to SRAM hubs to be compatible with my road bike, but my work and time trial rides will still have Campag gear. I guess it all comes down to how it feels for you and what is the extra cost of changing back to your current groupset manufacturer.
Al
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9/02/2011 1:01:36 PM
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Daniel M Smith
Posts 25
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How much did you pay for the S3? I'd love to get one but everywhere I look they're super expensive. Competitive cycles no longer have them, my next option is R & A cycles, both online companies btw, bikes are too expensive in store in Australia...if anyone works in a bike shop HINT HINT. I mean I have to spend $250 on a new kit from my sponsers but online kits top and bottom are $60 with postage...go figure. Internet is the way to go, just stay away from Alibaba.com and Gober.com. Scams.
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9/02/2011 10:39:18 PM
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stu
Posts 11
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Hi mate. I have rival, wish it was red but it aint. anyway, love it and will not be changing back to shimano unless its di2.
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10/02/2011 11:16:41 PM
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heresjohnie!
Posts 6
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Have you ever had to run a bike store and make a living from selling bikes and repairing them?? Have you ever run a business? Online only needs to pay for somewhere to store bikes and a website, a bike store needs to pay for a nice property with proper frontage taxes, council rates electricity, wages and so much more. there is a reason their price is higher its because they need to live!! They are also the ones that fix your online bike when something goes wrong with it and actually provide a legitimate warranty and actual service.
If you buy online please dont first waste a bike stores time asking them about all the different bikes and options and then turning around and buying of the internet under running their lively hood and wasting time they could spend on real customers.
So yes i think bike stores do realise they are more expensive you don need to send them hints they aren't stupid, their perfectly aware that the internet could be sending them into bankruptcy!
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11/02/2011 11:06:53 AM
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Daniel M Smith
Posts 25
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Ok Jason, No I've never run my own business or had the blessing of a career in which I can go out and buy things from a trusted store including my so called sponsors. But I don't have that luxury to be able to earn a big enough income to support myself and any future hopes and dreams. I therefore go out and find bargains as the local stores don't offer them. Ok so the bike stores aren't stupid, and you hate watching your customers ask about bikes then go buy them online...well loyalty means nothing in this day and age. I have spent over $10,000 in my sponsored bike shop and they now don't even recognise me or know me. Why should I help others who don't help me?
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11/02/2011 6:55:48 PM
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Aaron Griffiths
Posts 16
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I'm with Daniel.
An Adelaide bike shop advertised a riding jacket for $190. It was $100 on-line. I asked the salesperson, not to match the price, but to come close enough for me to buy it on the spot. He wasn't interested one bit and didn't budge a cent on the $190 price. If the gap was smaller, yes, I would purchase it locally because I can see and touch it on the shelf and I think buying something from an actual human is worth something. But that gap is unbelievable. Same product. It arrived free delivery on my doorstep 5 days later. Good service.
The mantra that bike shop people spout is "support your local bike shop". I call it "gullible". No person would deliberately buy the same product for much more than they see it advertised somewhere else.
The last time I checked, businesses exist for a profit - and only a profit. If they want our charity (ie for us to gullibly buy products at highly inflated prices), then they should drop their prices or close down and re-register as a charity - at least they won't have to pay taxes!
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11/02/2011 10:59:15 PM
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heresjohnie!
Posts 6
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Well I actually dont run a business myself and dont have heaps of money I am a student but i still see where the extra money comes into it. Firstly the online stores are not based in Australia, the cycling market in Australia is ridiculous... reason why because bike stores are forced to buy from reps who bring in products like zipp and sram etc and also your precious $190 jacket. The online sites get the products cheaper than the Aus reps do, which is why you do get it cheaper! Now i understand saving money like your 90 difference is huge and almost buys a new set of knicks(online) which is very attractive! But have you ever tried to return a product? I think their good service will end as soon as you do. getting good service when you are giving people money is not hard its when you have a problem with an item and get good service that it really is something special!
Now onto how you guys seem to be treated by your respective bike stores thats not fantastic, mainly Daniel actually only daniel, the fact your sponsored store doesnt even know who you are after spending that much money with them is a bit bad and the fact they charge you $250 for the privilege of wearing their kit is just wrong! your right you shouldnt be going back to them, they dont deserve it, its basic sales, you look after people who A support your business and more so B advertise your business!! So yes I do see merit in not wanting to buy a bike from a store who doesnt actually look after you, but the internet is killing small business it wont touch the big multi million dollar business who do only care about PROFIT!! it hurts the small businesses who risk their entire livelyhoods to run a business, that usually their passionate about.
Wow business is to make profit, very clever insight, did you study economics at uni?? yes business is their to make profit, that profit puts food on the table, lets remember we arent talking about BIG W here that makes absurd amounts of money its Jo and Mary's bike store most of the time, that instead of having a run of the mill job and getting by dare to think big and make a bit more money at huge risk to their futures if it doesnt work out! I think I've had enough of a rant for now, so until another comment gets me fired up cya later!
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11/02/2011 11:05:20 PM
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heresjohnie!
Posts 6
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On a completely different note and a bit unusual, an on topic post from me...
first 4 bikes I've had 2 road 2 mountain, I had shimano all the way never thought about doing anything else, with the mountain bike, back then there wasnt a great alternative, atleast not that I was aware of. Then bought a second hand bike with Sram and now am pretty hooked! just bought my first brand new bike (from a Local bike store :P) with Sram find it really good for racing in actually. cant say much about Rival however, onto Red now and force before that.
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12/02/2011 10:08:50 AM
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Daniel M Smith
Posts 25
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Mmm, back to the topic, yes I've always had Shimano except my very first road bike which had the old drop down levers...not sure the name. But I once road a bike just for a day with Campag and it was all back to front with the levers. I guess like all things it takes getting used to. The main reason I put this topic up is that I'm looking at a new bike Cervelo S2 with Sram Rival. This will be cheaper than an Ultegra version. I have always liked Dura Ace but have been told the Ultegra rear cassette lasts longer. There there is the whole buy 3 or more chains and replace after 500kms to make things last longer that I've never gotten into. Anyways, I'm just a little nervous getting a new group set I've not heard much and know little about. I can see both sides to the arguments raised, but yeah...back on topic 
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12/02/2011 4:17:18 PM
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heresjohnie!
Posts 6
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The good thing about Sram and Shimano is you can use either or for the basic components eg i use a dura ace chain, and also on my training wheels I have a 105 cassette. But Rival is more around the 105 mark than Ultegra, Force is basically the Ultegra equivalent not sure on how different Rival is. Campag is much more different that shimano and Sram, making the change to Sram was quite easy for me.
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15/02/2011 8:55:00 PM
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Jeffrey Schulz
Posts 58
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I have had Shimano from Sora through to Dura Ace, Campy Chorus and Record and Sram Force and Red and I find they are all good. I naver had any issues with any group set I used. When I swapped back from campy to shimano I kept the wheels as is and just ran a campy cassette with my dura ace group set and it worked fine. It took me a few weeks to get used to Sram at first because I was swapping between dura ace, both my bikes now run sram and they both run fine. As for bike stores I hear an Adelaide bike store no longer discounts so I do not shop at that shop any more. JT Cycles seem to sponsor this site and I am sure they will help you out, I shop at Super Elliots and they are great to me.
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16/02/2011 4:21:38 PM
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Creg Johnson
Posts 2
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Let me hit you with some knowledge.
The people who sprout on with their fear mongering regarding 'returns' and 'warranty' as the reason to shop in Australia are either from a bike shop, a distributor or someone else just so blinded by the shop guys waffle that they believe him. I have been buying consumer electronics and bike gear online for 10 years and NEVER have i had a warranty issue. Even if i did, at more than a 50% saving i can afford to just buy another one if it breaks during the warranty period and still be no worse off than buying it here. Not to mention it will come from overseas in 3 days. My local bike shop can't even fit me in for 3 days for a simple service letalone swap out a faulty product i'm sure.
As for the people saying having a bricks and mortar shop costs money that online stores aren't subject to it garbage. All the big online stores like PBK, CRC and so on have huge warehouses that would cost many many times more in rent than a store does. On top of that they need warehouse staff just like a shop needs floor staff. Everything is mailed so they have packaging costs and most will absorb the mail cost too. They also have large admin departments to handle invoicing and accounting. Their staff costs due to this are way more than even the largest bricks and mortar shops. The reason those online shops survive selling cheaper gear is that they are not greedy pricks. They sell cheap, with a low margin but move huge amounts of stock to still turn a handsome profit. Some online stores will drop ship which means they don't actually hold the stock they are just the middle man but this is rare and problematic as actual stock levels don't often match what is reported online and this leads to problems and unhappy customers, especially for sites that sell in huge volumes. Bricks and Mortar shops refuse to budge on RRP and you only have to look around one at some of the pricetags and packaging to see they've been on the shelf a long long time. And they're not unpopular products, they're just rediculously over priced and people are getting wise and going online.
Until the shops here stop being greedy a-holes and see me as more than a sucker with a few K to spend then i'll happily take my business online.
Cycling is one of the few sports that is global in the sense that people travel far and wide with their prescious equipment so most major components and equipment carry international warranties that are valid no matter where you purchased the product (zipp springs to mind) so do your research before purchase and don't let the guys in the store con you.
As for people going into a bike store to check equipment before getting it online instead? Harden up people. If the guys on the shop floors were more interested in selling to me instead of just quoting RRP's to me then i might be more inclined to give them a go. Until then i'll go to shops, try stuff on, look at bikes and gear then jump online and put my hard earned wage to better use with companies that actually value my return business with regular email discounts and promotions and so on.
edited by Creg Johnson on 16/02/2011
edited by Creg Johnson on 16/02/2011
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24/03/2011 11:04:25 PM
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James Sage
Posts 1
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I have run Shimano Ultegra 6700 and DA Di2 and SRAM Red in recent times. For me:
SRAM levers are much more comfortable that the mechanical Shimano groupset items and the double tap system is quite intuitive and easy to get used to. The most recent editions of Rival and Force have incorporated much of the Red features and many see Rival as about the best value groupset out there. Shifting for SRAM is middle between the buttery smoothness of Shimano and the distinctive clunk of Campy - personally I prefer the SRAM/Campy shifting feel than too much smoothness.
On the down side for SRAM I find that SRAM (Red) is more sensitive to set-up and can require adjustment more frequently than Shimano Ultergra/DA to stay tuned - especially the front derailleuer. Note though that SRAM Red FD works a little differently than SRAM Force/Rival.
In brakes the two are roughly equivalent - Shimano DA is often seen as the benchmark but SRAM is right there also - both are probably better than Campy before this year (when Campy finally intoduced a double pivot calliper for the rear)
SRAM Red cranks are heavier than Shimano Da with worse bearings and flexier chainrings than Shimano DA. SRAM Force/Rival cranksets on the other hand are reportedly great performers and many Red owners swap their Red chainrings for Force ones. The older Shimano Ultegra 6700 crankset was heavy but also tested as the stiffest of them all.
comparing the equivalent groupsets from each manufacturer - ie 105 vs Rival, Force VS Ultegra etc the SRAM gruppos are lighter - often significantly lighter which can be important to some depending on what you are building the bike for (it is to me)
In short there are some points of difference but both a good performers - at SRAM Rival/Shimano 105 level I would go Rival - it is light, has very comfortable levers and works reliably (and the black looks great on most bikes)
Happy riding
In relation to the sub-thread going on - my 2c worth - I don't blame the shops - from what I can see it is the distributors who bring the products in who contribute most to the price difference between local and offshore sources - retail guys really don't have a lot of room to move pricewise. You know something is wrong when you can get an Australian brand product like Knog cheaper and faster from the UK than from local sources.
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