|
6/01/2009 9:43:56 PM
|
Troy Collett
Posts 171
|
Im thinking of seeing a dietition.Anyone know of any?
|
|
8/01/2009 1:47:16 PM
|
Haley Williams
Posts 2
|
I saw one last year and it was a waste of my money and time. I did a lot of research and went to a lady that came up as one of the best in the field, however I found out $400.00 later that according to her everything I was eating and doing was perfect and I got a sticker. About 4 months later I was diagnosed with Exercise bulemia! I just wanted to put this out there because I went to a professional and was let down as she said I was doing GREAT and I was sick! I would suggest going to your GP and asking what you should do/see to get the info you want.
|
|
8/01/2009 9:02:36 PM
|
Jason Daniels
Posts 73
|
what was the sticker like?
|
|
8/01/2009 9:12:07 PM
|
Mr White
Posts 15
|
I can positively recommend Anthony Meade. He is a top level triathlete and caters especially for sports people;
Anthony Meade Sports Dietitian M: 0407972490 Ph. 8232 5833 Consulting at: Wakefield Sports Clinic, 270 Wakefield Street, Adelaide E:meade@adam.com.au
|
|
5/07/2010 12:56:33 PM
|
harley j
Posts 91
|
Remember, if your nutritionist/dietitian has to drink a cup of coffee to wake up in the morning, perhaps they aint eating the most healthful diet.. 
I remember in 2001 Louise Burke telling me that a vegan diet aint healthy. I asked her what she had for breakfast that morning. Louise said 'It wasnt a typical breakfast' I said 'Thats fine, I had bananas, porridge and soy milk, what did you have?' Louise said 'Coco pops with M&M's and skim milk..' I said 'Sounds healthy to me!!!'.
If the AIS crew knew anything about real nutrition, then we wouldnt see the cancer stats in the athletes that we unfortunately see. You simply dont get cancer if your eating a healthy diet, according the China Health Study which is the most comprehensives study ever done on human nutrition..
It saddens me when I see nutritionists with weight problems, taking diuretics, appetite suppressants and or stimulants to 'cut weight' when all they have to do is eat a low fat, low sodium, high carb ,high calorie vegan diet with plenty of fruits and veg. Even Cadel Evans recently has switched from milk to soy judging by what Chiara (Cadel's wife) recently said. 750 ml milk (for Cadel, I use soy milk – lighter!)
When I went out with Lance last year I learnt that Lance got his vegan mate Rip Esselstyn to put him on a plant based diet to speed up his cancer recovery and boost his immune system. Rip's website is www.engine2diet.com and Lance has his name on the back of Rip's book as a recommendation.
Interesting huh?
|
|
8/07/2010 1:12:51 PM
|
Nick Shipp
Posts 6
|
So's this.
www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html
www.badscience.net
Harley, while I applaud your desire to get people healthy and to help us stop destroying the very planet we live on I take umbrage at your blanket theory of "animal products are bad". I have read many of the references you post on here, most of which have no scientific integrity, many quoting opinion and media columns. To promote these as the truth and as scientifically valid arguments is wrong, and I recommend you read the book written by Ben Goldacre as it, as a scientist, has opened my eyes to the need of objectivity in everything we transmit into the ether of the internet.
Yes, eating less animal products is a good thing, but we didn't evolve from a small brained tree swinger to devolutionise ourselves completely to a state where we go back to having an expected life span of 35 years because we forgo easily absorbed protien/minerals/fats from animal products, did we? (note: I know it can't happen,I'm just making a point). Now I'm ranting.....It's like the whole body acid level thing. WTF. Want to know your body's pH levels... measure your blood. Want to know if it changes with diet.... of course it does, but only if your diet is so completely out of whack you dont get the nutrients required for your body to adequately adjust it to its normal level. And how rare would this be? EXTREMELY. Your body has NUMEROUS systems in place to ensure homeostasis, even under difficult circumstances.
As to your cancer stuff, don't even get me started. This one I find extremely offensive, mainly because my father has terminal canacer and to say that to forgo treatment (chemo, radio, whatever) and turn vegan will save him, what a load. Yep, I agree a better all-round diet can reduce the incidence of cancer, but to infer that by radical raw food veganism (BTW who has the time, what with a JOB, a FAMILY, other COMMITMENTS, to spend half a day eating) everyone will prevent or cure themselves of all cancer is both naive and, more importantly, wrong. To say it hasn't been of benefit to some survivors would also be false, but to adulate RFV as the ONLY way to survive is bull****. Look at our very environment; particularly its toxicity and the fact that people live MUCH longer than they ever have. Want to know why more people have cancer? There's two important reasons. Add stress, workplace environment, plastics, the list goes on.
Obviously I have thought about this for a while and again, whilst I applaud your basic desires for a better, healthier, less destructive diet and environment for us all, I think if you want to promote something as the way or the path, that the facts had better be unrefutable and with merit.
By the way, don't go to a nutritionist, they do not need to have formal qualifications. Go to a board registered dietician, they do.
And lets not talk about what a banana-only diet does to your heart either, Harley, we both know the truth about that one.
PS pardon any typos, the online filler doesn't always keep up with my typing.
|
|
8/07/2010 1:15:22 PM
|
Nick Shipp
Posts 6
|
Oh yeah, I forgot to say, if you want to discuss any of this with me, lets not have a public flame war, it's juvenile. You have my number.
|
|
8/07/2010 1:57:59 PM
|
Nick Shipp
Posts 6
|
And, finally, Exercise bulemia is a psychological condition. If you presented with eating a healthy, nutritional diet how is a dietitian suppsed to know you have a predisposition for something psychological? Does your dentist know if you have athletes foot?
|
|
8/07/2010 2:39:31 PM
|
pat bruse
Posts 1
|
Hey Harley, I love how despite your zealotry for absolute nutritional purity you repeated refer to your idol Mr Pharmstrong. He is probably one of the greatest dopers of the '90s still racing. What cured his cancer with multiple mets - the chemo or the big bowls of steamed broccoli? - you'll have to check next time he's here (assuming he's not in a Federal Jail by then)
|
|
8/07/2010 5:41:26 PM
|
Thomas D Hensel
Posts 1
|
Thankyou Nick,
You’ve saved me considerable time, as you have said most of what I want to say. I never write on forums so this is a first. Again, like Nick has stated clearly I don’t doubt that we should all (western society) eat more plant based products, and less processed foods and plates full of meat. Lately I have started including some 'vegan' meals to my diet and I am feeling it works for me. However, firstly, to say that protein has little or no importance is incorrect. The word protein comes from the Greek word Prota, meaning of "primary importance". Our bodies need a steady supply of complete protein each day to rebuild muscle which is continually broken down by are body systems. Now again, this protein can be gained from nuts, rice and beans (all great things for us) but I can also be gained from lean unprocessed meat (red meat providing high quality iron for example) and dairy. I read one on one of the forums where Harley compares the protein level in bananas (and other fruits) to mothers milk. I think you’ll find there is a fundamental difference between the energy and nutrient needs of a adult human and a newborn. And I doubt anyone would develop properly if all the digested their whole life was mothers milk!
Harley may argue that he feels and performs best on a vegan diet, and that is fair enough, but the point is everyone is different. For instance, Laird Hamilton is a world class big wave surfer who, doesn’t drink milk, but eats more red meat, fish, poultry and eggs than you could point a stick at. Unhealthy? No Laird is one of the fittest healthiest 45 year olds I ever seen who surfs massive waves, heli-snowboards, has paddled the English channel on an ocean going outrigger and is trying to break the Trans-America cycling world record. He states that lean meats and fish are the most important part of his diet. Thus everyone is different.
Therefore, whilst I firmly we all need more veges and fruit, I don’t believe in using a forum such as this to promote ones own ideas and to make claims about diet and its purported ability to cure us of cancer. You cannot tell me that currently or in the past people on vegan diets have not also prematurely developed terrible diseases such as cancer. Whether or not these claims are back by science I don’t care, I think you should have more respect for people such as Nick who have loved ones or family suffering from a illness which claims the lives of so many. There are OTHER factors which lead to such disease. I would argue that stress has a much greater influence on developing cancer than diet. In fact, (and this is fact) chronic stress has been linked to stroke, heart attack, kidney failure, cardiovascular problems, cancer; and diabetes is even made worse by stress. Thus to over simplify something as complex and unfortunate as cancer is a tragic overestimation.
There I said it. Kind of repeated what Nick said in a few more words.
BTW: Not sure spray painting something like ‘Got Cancer, Go Vegan' on Gorge Rd is the right thing to do. In summary Harley, I don’t doubt your endeavour, just feel your execution is a little wayward.
|
|
14/07/2010 2:40:43 PM
|
harley j
Posts 91
|
Great points Nick and good to hear from you.
Ive had my T waves checked a few times since 2002 and they are all good. Last time I got em checked was November 2009. I did some more homework on it and it appears it takes the body a few weeks to adjust to a low sodium/high potassium intake. I thought I was eating a lot of bananas back then..I wont mention how many Im eating thesedays!
But on a serious note, in recent years 3 Australian cyclist friends I knew have died from heart attacks. All were under 30.
Here are some links on heart disease,cancer and diet. Not written by hippies like me but scientists like yourself. Peer reviewed stuff.
www.pcrm.org
www.drmcdougall.com
www.preventcancer.com
www.heartattackproof.com
www.notmilk.com
www.thechinastudy.com
website by hippy's
www.veganbodybuilding.com
My Dad got diagnosed with Cancer late 2008 and 3 months later after starting radiation and chemo my Dad was dead. He went from riding his bike to barely being able to walk out of radiation treatment unit. It was hard to watch my Dad being slowly killed to death. Radiation is bad for us if we are healthy, but if we are deathly sick, its healthy? Thats like me getting a flat tyre and then slashing it open to fix it.
I remember asking the oncologist why they didnt advise my Dad to change his eating?
She said 'He didnt ask me'.
I asked her 'Is a strong immune system important in the fight against cancer?' She said 'Its essential'
I asked 'Does a 'healthy' diet improve our immune system?' She said 'Of course it does'.
Watching her face get redder by the second I asked 'What does chemo and radiation do to the cancer patients immune system?' She said 'It totally destroy's it.'
That was the last question I asked as she was getting visibly ****ed off and my Dad didnt really want to hear it either.
Maybe she didnt know about these oncologists that speak against traditional therapies.
http://www.curenaturalicancro.com/2-physicians-refuse-chemo.html
So Im speaking from personal experience and arent forums a forum cos we get to share our personal experiences? I dont agree with everyone and certaintly dont expect everyone to agree with me. Imagine if everyone agreed with each other, we would be like 'yes, lovely day outside but only if you agree and then maybe it can be a rainy day, but thats ok cos the plants get watered..'
The science is there. The athletes are there. The logic is there. The food is there. All I do is make people more aware.
They say the truth will set you free but first its gonna **** ya off.
Have a great day everyone.
PS: Levi Leipheimmer calls himself a vegetarian. What is the peleton coming to..
http://blog.peta.org/archives/levi_leipheimer/
edited by harley j on 14/07/2010
|
|
14/07/2010 2:48:03 PM
|
harley j
Posts 91
|
Nick, those 2 links you provided in your above posts..they are written by blogger punters like me.
Ive provided the scientific peer reviewed sites as you and others have requested in my above reply. that the facts had better be unrefutable and with merit.
Your right Nick, RFV diet is not the only way to live, thats just my choice. A low fat, high carb wholefoods vegan diet rich in fruits and veg is easy for anyone to do regardless of demographic position.
There is some great recipies at this site I mentioned.
www.drmcdougall.com
I promise I wont look in anyones shopping cart if they dont look in mine!
edited by harley j on 14/07/2010
edited by harley j on 14/07/2010
edited by harley j on 14/07/2010
|
|
14/07/2010 5:43:27 PM
|
Nick Shipp
Posts 6
|
I'm sorry to hear about your Dad Harley, I'm sure that wasn't an easy thing to go through.... as I'll find out soon enough.
The difference in the 2 references i have used is that they use scientifically proven data, not heresay, and not "personal experience" to argue their points. I've never said your qualifications prevented you from having an opinion just that is you are going to quote evidence it has to be IRrefutable (I hate it when my english is wrong) and with merit, not one that cherry-picks facts to support an argument. And this is what hapens ALL OF THE TIME when people have an agenda to push or a product to sell.
I have read a few of the websites you promote... one of them actually says a moderate balanced diet is the healthiest way to eat. Nothing about vegan or vegetarian, just moderation in the amount of red meat you consume. As for the milk one, who doesnt think the mass marketing of any animal product and the resulting use of steroids and hormones isn't going to affect product quality? No me. But they use the example of the use of hormones and antibiotics in American dairy cattle, a MASSIVE market which doesn't give 2 hoots about the health of its consumers and is regulated by politicians with vested (financial) interests. Hence why AMERICAN milk is banned in the EU. I am sure the proper use of organic products is a better way to eat, and I'm sure that's why its popularity has taken off in recent years.
As for the treatment of cancer, again, I have read references from your links, oft taken out of context and manipulated so that the end product sounds far worse, or even the opposite, than the actual reference stated. Surely you've read the data about vegan diets being responsible for higher levels of colon cancer, and high carb diets causing diabetes and cancer? I have, as well as an opposing view, so what's the truth?
As a comparison, I could quote from this site:
http://www.biblelife.org/lowcarb.htm
but f#ck me if I'd believe anything here. If it's not dircetly from PubMed, and you haven't read the entire article in context, don't believe it. If it is, still be a little sceptical. That's just my opinion anyway.
As for the radiation treatment comment...c'mon, you're not serious are you? Radiotherapy for cancer TARGETS specific tumors/growths it is nothing like being too close to a Chernobyl incident where the doses were uncontained, non-specific and HUGE. I don't doubt the dubious outcomes of chemotherapy, but I dont know the history, publications, uses in any sort of depth so I'm unable to add a qualified comment . What I do know is that these drugs are usually used as a form of last line defence, rarely as a first option. But like everyone, I know a few people who have had significantly extended lives due to this form of treatment, so who am I to say it's useless?
I'm glad you have found your way Harley, but promotion of your cause by pulling down everything else is irresponsible. Not all cars can use petrol with 10% ethanol can they? And if they do use it, they might be OK in the short term, but it messes significantly with the engine. If you are going to quote evidence, quote papers, medical research, published meta-analyses and systematic reviews, not just something on the internet that someone else wrote.
Your quote at the end made me laugh, but let's reword it a little "I promise I wont push my values and beliefs onto you if you dont push your values and beliefs onto me"
Stay healthy everyone.
|
|
27/07/2010 8:30:17 PM
|
harley j
Posts 91
|
Thanks for writing Nick.
I finished my 8th 24hr solo xc race on the weekend. It was actually warm and its the middle of winter..go figure.
Actually ALL the sites I put up promote a low fat, high carb vegan diet, if we care to read em..
I sure am a pushy bastard! I want people to feel as healthy and fit as I do. Just like I 'pushed' you to get warranty on your frame that time, I dont want people to rip out a head tube if I can say something. I dont want people to suffer if I can say something. Sure I dont have the time or energy to chase everyone around with a banana smoothie but I have a few minutes each day just to leave a message somewhere and people can do what they want with the info.
Here is 2 vids that I recommend people watch if they dont like the info from hippys like me.
1. Healing cancer from the inside out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfnIzYE4L8Y
2. Reversing heart disease.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsfapVCJqVI
Ive sent out many dvd's to people. If anyone wants a free copy, email me veganbobster@gmail.com and I will post one out to anyone at my expense and you can make your own mind up what makes sense and what makes dollars when it comes to educating the public about taking control of their health.
Love, peace and banana grease
Harley.
edited by harley j on 27/07/2010
edited by harley j on 27/07/2010
|
|
29/07/2010 9:39:57 PM
|
death valley 69
Posts 1
|
Nothing wrong with vegan ;but you got to do it right! Hippy **** just doesn't cut it! www.veganfitness.net
|
|
30/07/2010 9:12:17 AM
|
Ross H
Posts 9
|
We're all going to die of something so you may as well enjoy your time here while you can. Why deny yourself the pleasure of a butter soaked pastry and a double shot espresso after a long ride. A banana smoothie and bowl of muesli just don't have the same attraction, for mine. Just remember that old motto, "all things in moderation".
PS If us humans had not been omnivores (i.e. we eat meat and veg) we would probably still be hanging out on the plains of Africa with our other primate cousins. One of the main factors humans have become so successful, in evolutionary terms, is that we have eaten a very varied diet with lots of protein (i.e. meat) to feed our huge brain. There's a reason why evolution has equipped us to eat meat and 4 milliion years or so of evolution can't be wrong.
|
|
30/07/2010 9:51:03 AM
|
harley j
Posts 91
|
Ross H wrote:
We're all going to die of something so you may as well enjoy your time here while you can. Why deny yourself the pleasure of a butter soaked pastry and a double shot espresso after a long ride. A banana smoothie and bowl of muesli just don't have the same attraction, for mine. Just remember that old motto, "all things in moderation".
PS If us humans had not been omnivores (i.e. we eat meat and veg) we would probably still be hanging out on the plains of Africa with our other primate cousins. One of the main factors humans have become so successful, in evolutionary terms, is that we have eaten a very varied diet with lots of protein (i.e. meat) to feed our huge brain. There's a reason why evolution has equipped us to eat meat and 4 milliion years or so of evolution can't be wrong.
Thats right Ross, 'everything in moderation' especially moderation! and your right ,we are all going to die eventually... and thats what I used to tell myself when I was doing meth. I would say 'have a hit, you could get hit by a bus tommorrow..' but then I would wake up like I got hit by a bus and soon I started to look for ways to be 'high' all the time with no come downs. I started playing with my health to feel better. I started reading more books and talking with health freaks. I learnt that heavy foods require caffiene after so I could function. I stopped coffee in 99 and havent had once since. Maybe its part of my OCD but I wanted to find out which foods provided energy and which took more energy. I just rode to the shops to get breakfast. On the sunshine coast here, there is some killer climbs. I had to bust out 500watts just to get to the top. I like having that sort of fitness all year round. Functional fitness we can use in our daily lives to make life for us and others better.
Ive got an aunty I visit in a nursing home. She is 85. She doesnt remember my name. I dont feel her quality of life is something I want at that age. I know a lady that is 100 and a vegan. I went to her 100birthday party in Adelaide. She is very lucid. I dont want to have a stroke, heart attack or come down with cancer if I can do my bit to prevent it. The science out there says we can. I used to think this crazy plant diet was a starvation diet. Anyone that hangs with me knows how much I eat. I eat more food than anyone I know. If it rains, I dont go training unless I need some groceries. Ive learn that if it aint fun, it aint sustainable.
If Im having as much fun as this lady is when Im that age, I will still be happy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr19gqQhJhQ
As for the debate to Sam Neil's TV add with the chimp that rides the bike cos he doesnt eat red meat, this is a good link with some opinions from a few specialists in the field. http://www.vegansa.com/veganism-diet-and-human-evolution.php But for me the fact that we find road kill repulsive, lack the ability to produce vitamin C, have animals as pets, produce our own cholesterol and have seminal vesicles is enough evidence for me.
edited by harley j on 30/07/2010
|
|
30/07/2010 10:45:13 AM
|
Ross H
Posts 9
|
Harley,
My point is, if your pre-Homo Sapien ancestors had not eaten meat, and developed the associated technology to do so more efficiently, then you would not now have the intellectual ability to analyse your dietary needs, or fix your bicycle, or post messages on internet forums like this. You clearly find meat-eating repugnant, but be thankful our distant forebears did not.
|
|
30/07/2010 2:38:41 PM
|
harley j
Posts 91
|
Maybe you Ross can make scientific history and be the first person to discover a human needed nutrient that can be ONLY provided by consumption of animal products and not produced in the human body or sourced from plant foods.
For sure, no doubt we did consume other humans, eat animals, picked thru a tigers left overs etc. Just like cows will eat other animals if thats all they have. In a world of good, great, better or best, Im going for best every time I can get it. 
|
|
30/07/2010 4:43:12 PM
|
Nick Shipp
Posts 6
|
For F!cks sake Harley, if we are going to use single cases of evidence to justify something as the "only way" to do something then late's talk about my grandfather who smoked like a train his whole life. Lived to a very ripe old age, didn't have lung cancer, etc, etc. Now I suppose there's evidence that we should ALL smoke, cos we will ALL be like him. What a load of cr@p. If you use this theory then YOU have to believe that all those guys that did better than you at the 24hr on the weekend must be on the right track , one far better than a rfv diet, no? And I know as a matter of FACT that many (if not most, possibly all) utilise animal products in their diet. I'm sure you will find some "reasonable" justification though won't you. Try, just for once, to answer a response with something other than rhetoric and pseudoscience. Saying things like "good to hear from you" WTF. Dude, its an open forum, not like I emailed YOU. Being chummy doesn't make you less of target, it's just your attempt to belittle those who do write in. Saying things with a smiley face after them like "if we care to read them" is pathetically condescending. I have read may of those links, and many of the links from those links, and they are all the same. Pseudoscience dressed up with big words and terms so that people will feel silly if they challenge them. Like your assertion that climbers regularly do colonics on big mountain stages. Yep, probably true 10 years ago as they were all up to their eyeballs in bloodboosters, but now they won't because of rectal bleeding, damage to their mucosa and alterations to their bodies water balance ae detrimental to performance. This infomation came to me from a doctor friend who works with professional cyclists at the pro-tour level. Not rhetoric, fact.
As I have said many times before my friend, RFV works for you and for others. That's great. Not everyone will feel like you do on this diet. Not everyone wants to, or needs to be on this diet. View this as personal choice.
AS I once again scratch my head in bewilderment as to the links you give I ask you this. If big pharma as you love to call them are only in it for the money, what is your good friend Dr McDougall or whatever his name is in it for? Is it an altruistic, humanitarian thing he's doing to save the planet? My ar$e. Plastered all over his home page are links to buy his books. You'll argue "we all have to survive", but he could do all of his whilst on the dole, or social security too, couldn't he? What worries me is people following you blindly like this man. A man who attempted to argue against a large study of breastcancer patients (3,000) which demonstrated that increasing fruit and veg input didn't SIGNIFICANTLY change risk of recurrence etc by saying that the study participants MUST have LIED about what they told the researchers. CHr!st, that's not a scientific argument, that's a twelve year old not getting is way. I challenge everyone reading this to delve further into your claims and those of your "heroes". Some are true, but many are scaremongering and dangerously wrong.
As for the good, better, best, if it's between having to get regular B vitamin shots and following a healthy balanced diet I know what I'd chose.
Unlike most people on this forum Harley you fail to see the whole picture. Everyone agrees that what you did to overcome your addiction and psychological problems was great...for you. But comparing people to neanderthals picking through tiger scat or comparing roadkill to organically grown beef or free-range kangaroo is pure hilarity...I think you're trying to be funny aren't you? 
So, again, I implore those reading to do so further. Read RESEARCH, not rhetoric, and I implore you, Harley, to answer statements, not try to skirt questions with condesending responses. As for me, that's it. I can't be bothered anymore. You know what they say about arguing with a fool This gives you the last word Harley, use it wisely.
|
|
pages:
1 2 |
|---|